Adrian Dodoro

[boncer34]

How the f*** does this c*** still have a job? Been at the club 20 years and never delivered a list capable of winning a f****** final.

This clubs a joke.

[mdso]

I agree it is and I cautiously await season 2020. I have no confidence the club is going to improve much any time soon regardless, of the changes taking place. The club implies trust us!!! Why should we??? Put the runs on the board first and then I'll reconsider my current position until then nah.
Its just another game of wait and see and snakes and ladders.

[Crazyman]

Oh ye of little faith.

How can you not count his raging successes.

Recycled stars such as:
Cupido
Zantuck
Allen
Campo
Green

Or his wonderful draft stories:
Gumby
Myers
Harvey
Reimers
Hunter

His record speaks for itself

[Windy_Hill]

As pointed out recently in a similar discussion, our drafting has been hit and miss at best.

Since the late 2000s we can name but a handful of hits and sadly a truckload of misses

The Hits, players who I consider Above Average bordering Elite have been few and far between with most being Top 10 picks (so in reality, should be half decent)

Hooker
Hurley
Heppell
McGrath
Merrett


4 of the above have won AA selection and there are 2 rising stars. Merrett and Hooker were both second round selections.

Then you drop down to the next tier and many of these guys were also first round selections

Zaharakis
Parish
Francis
Fantasia

Serviceable Selections

Ambrose
Gleeson
Bellchambers


Jury Still Out

Redman
Clarke
Ham
Guelfi
Ridley
BZT
Mutch
Draper
Snelling

Trades

Saad
Stringer
Smith
Shiel
Stewart


Rookies

McKenna
Walla


Flops

Laverde
Langford

F&S

Daniher

Not an Elite draft success in the above groups. Yes, half a dozen above average players. But that is it. Our best pick ups other than the top group and trades have been via the Rookie draft.


Almost all premiership teams will have a minimum of 3 to 4 elite level players. As we speak we have none.

[BenDoolan]

Don't forget the ones we let go (and who would be regarded as flops if they stayed) in Ted Richards and Bachar Houli who went onto becoming top players in premiership teams.

The truth is, it doesn't matter who we recruit, our shit systems and programs just retards any talent the players may have. There are useless staff right throughout the whole footy department - and throughout the years. From the days when we had pizza restaurateur Paul Dimattina running around as skills coach to the current pillocks in charge fitness, performance, or whatever invented title they have these days. Termites. That's all they are. They have eaten the guts out of our club.

I can absolutely says this with confidence...had we selected Cyril Rioli, he would have played about 150 pissy games of footy and we would lump in the list of "failed draft selections". And had Hawthorn selected David Myers, he would be a club champion with 4 premierships under his belt.

But yes, FMD, surely to f*** we can move on from Dodoro. Twenty f****** years

[s'dreams]

As pointed out recently in a similar discussion, our drafting has been hit and miss at best.

Since the late 2000s we can name but a handful of hits and sadly a truckload of misses

The Hits, players who I consider Above Average bordering Elite have been few and far between with most being Top 10 picks (so in reality, should be half decent)

Hooker
Hurley
Heppell
McGrath
Merrett

I have vague memories of Hurley and Hooker being bagged weekly in this forum. I also remember Heppell, McGrath and Merrett also being critiicised.

You may recall the recent listing of our 1st round picks (and by gum there were some duds among those), but what concerned me more were the depressing list of our 2nd round picks, most of who did not go on to having a decent career (defined by a minimum of 50 games) with the club. Instead we have seemingly relied on trades and rookie elevations to make up most of our list.

Year Selection Player (games played for EFC) * = still with club
2000 #27 Ted Richards (33)
2000 #32 Sam Hunt (7)
2001 #31 Joel Renolds (38)
2001 #34 Simon O’Keefe (0)
2002 #27 Darren Walsh (2)
2002 #28 Tristian Cartlidge (7)
2003 #27 Jay Nash (43)
2004 #30 Andrew Lee (5)
2005 ... No second round pick
2006 #20 Tom Hislop (7)
2007 #23 Tayte Pears (70)
2008 #23 David Zaharakis (207*)
2009 #24 Jake Carlisle (85)
2009 #26 Travis Coyer (87)
2009 #33 Anthony Long (0)
2010 #31 Ariel Steinberg (10)
2011 #31 Jackson Merrett (56)
2012 #34 Jason Ashby (12)
2013 #26 Zach Merrett (126*)
2014 ... No second round pick
2015 #29 Alex Morgan (0)
2015 #30 Mason Redman (25*)
2016 #22 Jordan Ridley (9*)
2016 #31 Josh Begley (16*)
2017 ... No second round pick
2018 #38 Irving Mosquito (0*)

So six players (out of 23 selections) have played 50 or more games with us and a few of them (eg JMerret, Colyer) some would argue were gifted games. While those drafted from 2015 on haven’t had a real chance to make 50 games yet, one player has gone and there are question marks over at least one other.

So I agree with Ben, aside from the seemingly crummy drafting, something seems to be wrong with our player development and/or culture. It is time that the club works out just what is wrong and fixes it.

[boncer34]

Don't forget the ones we let go (and who would be regarded as flops if they stayed) in Ted Richards and Bachar Houli who went onto becoming top players in premiership teams.

The truth is, it doesn't matter who we recruit, our shit systems and programs just retards any talent the players may have. There are useless staff right throughout the whole footy department - and throughout the years. From the days when we had pizza restaurateur Paul Dimattina running around as skills coach to the current pillocks in charge fitness, performance, or whatever invented title they have these days. Termites. That's all they are. They have eaten the guts out of our club.

I can absolutely says this with confidence...had we selected Cyril Rioli, he would have played about 150 pissy games of footy and we would lump in the list of "failed draft selections". And had Hawthorn selected David Myers, he would be a club champion with 4 premierships under his belt.

But yes, FMD, surely to f*** we can move on from Dodoro. Twenty f****** years

I refuse to count Houli as a failure by us. Who knew that soft cock would develop an edge? Remember him shitting himself when Crameri ran at him?

Him becoming good is the definition of miracles do happen.

[BenDoolan]

Don't forget the ones we let go (and who would be regarded as flops if they stayed) in Ted Richards and Bachar Houli who went onto becoming top players in premiership teams.

The truth is, it doesn't matter who we recruit, our shit systems and programs just retards any talent the players may have. There are useless staff right throughout the whole footy department - and throughout the years. From the days when we had pizza restaurateur Paul Dimattina running around as skills coach to the current pillocks in charge fitness, performance, or whatever invented title they have these days. Termites. That's all they are. They have eaten the guts out of our club.

I can absolutely says this with confidence...had we selected Cyril Rioli, he would have played about 150 pissy games of footy and we would lump in the list of "failed draft selections". And had Hawthorn selected David Myers, he would be a club champion with 4 premierships under his belt.

But yes, FMD, surely to f*** we can move on from Dodoro. Twenty f****** years

I refuse to count Houli as a failure by us. Who knew that soft cock would develop an edge? Remember him shitting himself when Crameri ran at him?

Him becoming good is the definition of miracles do happen.

Yes, but I think the point I’m making is that he went elsewhere and developed into the player he did. Same for Teddy. I suspect, in my opinion, they would have remained “ordinary” if they played out their careers at EFC.

I don’t think Houli coming good is a miracle. Perhaps their programs enable their players to reach their potential or beyond.

As a quick example, Jobe Watson had to externally engage a boxing coach to get his fitness level to AFL standards. Really? WTF was our fitness department doing in this space? Jobe also engaged Greg Williams to help him develop his midfield skills. Again, WTF was our program in regards to this? Perhaps if we sent all our midfielders to the Jobe Watson personally organised “camp”, we could have had a premiership midfield by now.

[boncer34]

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Don't forget the ones we let go (and who would be regarded as flops if they stayed) in Ted Richards and Bachar Houli who went onto becoming top players in premiership teams.

The truth is, it doesn't matter who we recruit, our shit systems and programs just retards any talent the players may have. There are useless staff right throughout the whole footy department - and throughout the years. From the days when we had pizza restaurateur Paul Dimattina running around as skills coach to the current pillocks in charge fitness, performance, or whatever invented title they have these days. Termites. That's all they are. They have eaten the guts out of our club.

I can absolutely says this with confidence...had we selected Cyril Rioli, he would have played about 150 pissy games of footy and we would lump in the list of "failed draft selections". And had Hawthorn selected David Myers, he would be a club champion with 4 premierships under his belt.

But yes, FMD, surely to f*** we can move on from Dodoro. Twenty f****** years

I refuse to count Houli as a failure by us. Who knew that soft cock would develop an edge? Remember him shitting himself when Crameri ran at him?

Him becoming good is the definition of miracles do happen.

Yes, but I think the point I’m making is that he went elsewhere and developed into the player he did. Same for Teddy. I suspect, in my opinion, they would have remained “ordinary” if they played out their careers at EFC.

I don’t think Houli coming good is a miracle. Perhaps their programs enable their players to reach their potential or beyond.

As a quick example, Jobe Watson had to externally engage a boxing coach to get his fitness level to AFL standards. Really? WTF was our fitness department doing in this space? Jobe also engaged Greg Williams to help him develop his midfield skills. Again, WTF was our program in regards to this? Perhaps if we sent all our midfielders to the Jobe Watson personally organised “camp”, we could have had a premiership midfield by now.

While I agree our coaching and development leaves a lot to be desired Jobe is a shit example.

He was a lazy tubby little f*** who had an old man who was tough as nails and belted him until he came good. Greg Williams was actually a club initiated push.

Can you imagine punishing some of the little snowflakes now with boxing? Not just at our club, but at them all across the league. The trick is finding those blokes who already have the talent and don't need the old school tactics to get it out of them.

We fail miserably at that.

[BenDoolan]

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Don't forget the ones we let go (and who would be regarded as flops if they stayed) in Ted Richards and Bachar Houli who went onto becoming top players in premiership teams.

The truth is, it doesn't matter who we recruit, our shit systems and programs just retards any talent the players may have. There are useless staff right throughout the whole footy department - and throughout the years. From the days when we had pizza restaurateur Paul Dimattina running around as skills coach to the current pillocks in charge fitness, performance, or whatever invented title they have these days. Termites. That's all they are. They have eaten the guts out of our club.

I can absolutely says this with confidence...had we selected Cyril Rioli, he would have played about 150 pissy games of footy and we would lump in the list of "failed draft selections". And had Hawthorn selected David Myers, he would be a club champion with 4 premierships under his belt.

But yes, FMD, surely to f*** we can move on from Dodoro. Twenty f****** years

I refuse to count Houli as a failure by us. Who knew that soft cock would develop an edge? Remember him shitting himself when Crameri ran at him?

Him becoming good is the definition of miracles do happen.

Yes, but I think the point I’m making is that he went elsewhere and developed into the player he did. Same for Teddy. I suspect, in my opinion, they would have remained “ordinary” if they played out their careers at EFC.

I don’t think Houli coming good is a miracle. Perhaps their programs enable their players to reach their potential or beyond.

As a quick example, Jobe Watson had to externally engage a boxing coach to get his fitness level to AFL standards. Really? WTF was our fitness department doing in this space? Jobe also engaged Greg Williams to help him develop his midfield skills. Again, WTF was our program in regards to this? Perhaps if we sent all our midfielders to the Jobe Watson personally organised “camp”, we could have had a premiership midfield by now.

While I agree our coaching and development leaves a lot to be desired Jobe is a shit example.

He was a lazy tubby little f*** who had an old man who was tough as nails and belted him until he came good. Greg Williams was actually a club initiated push.

Can you imagine punishing some of the little snowflakes now with boxing? Not just at our club, but at them all across the league. The trick is finding those blokes who already have the talent and don't need the old school tactics to get it out of them.

We fail miserably at that.

Jobe is a good example of club failings v self initiated improvement...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.the ... 1db34.html

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cou ... 3acd5e8d12

[boncer34]

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Don't forget the ones we let go (and who would be regarded as flops if they stayed) in Ted Richards and Bachar Houli who went onto becoming top players in premiership teams.

The truth is, it doesn't matter who we recruit, our shit systems and programs just retards any talent the players may have. There are useless staff right throughout the whole footy department - and throughout the years. From the days when we had pizza restaurateur Paul Dimattina running around as skills coach to the current pillocks in charge fitness, performance, or whatever invented title they have these days. Termites. That's all they are. They have eaten the guts out of our club.

I can absolutely says this with confidence...had we selected Cyril Rioli, he would have played about 150 pissy games of footy and we would lump in the list of "failed draft selections". And had Hawthorn selected David Myers, he would be a club champion with 4 premierships under his belt.

But yes, FMD, surely to f*** we can move on from Dodoro. Twenty f****** years

I refuse to count Houli as a failure by us. Who knew that soft cock would develop an edge? Remember him shitting himself when Crameri ran at him?

Him becoming good is the definition of miracles do happen.

Yes, but I think the point I’m making is that he went elsewhere and developed into the player he did. Same for Teddy. I suspect, in my opinion, they would have remained “ordinary” if they played out their careers at EFC.

I don’t think Houli coming good is a miracle. Perhaps their programs enable their players to reach their potential or beyond.

As a quick example, Jobe Watson had to externally engage a boxing coach to get his fitness level to AFL standards. Really? WTF was our fitness department doing in this space? Jobe also engaged Greg Williams to help him develop his midfield skills. Again, WTF was our program in regards to this? Perhaps if we sent all our midfielders to the Jobe Watson personally organised “camp”, we could have had a premiership midfield by now.

While I agree our coaching and development leaves a lot to be desired Jobe is a shit example.

He was a lazy tubby little f*** who had an old man who was tough as nails and belted him until he came good. Greg Williams was actually a club initiated push.

Can you imagine punishing some of the little snowflakes now with boxing? Not just at our club, but at them all across the league. The trick is finding those blokes who already have the talent and don't need the old school tactics to get it out of them.

We fail miserably at that.

Jobe is a good example of club failings v self initiated improvement...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.the ... 1db34.html

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cou ... 3acd5e8d12

He met Williams due to his management, he did this after the club told him to.

He started the training in St Kilda because his Dad got in the ring with him early August 2005 and belted him around the ears to show how unfit he was. Up until that point Jobe resisted all the extra training sessions the club ordered him to, he'd been routinely told his fitness was shithouse and he needed to put in more.

Jobe didn't do either of those off his own bat.

[BenDoolan]

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I refuse to count Houli as a failure by us. Who knew that soft cock would develop an edge? Remember him shitting himself when Crameri ran at him?

Him becoming good is the definition of miracles do happen.

Yes, but I think the point I’m making is that he went elsewhere and developed into the player he did. Same for Teddy. I suspect, in my opinion, they would have remained “ordinary” if they played out their careers at EFC.

I don’t think Houli coming good is a miracle. Perhaps their programs enable their players to reach their potential or beyond.

As a quick example, Jobe Watson had to externally engage a boxing coach to get his fitness level to AFL standards. Really? WTF was our fitness department doing in this space? Jobe also engaged Greg Williams to help him develop his midfield skills. Again, WTF was our program in regards to this? Perhaps if we sent all our midfielders to the Jobe Watson personally organised “camp”, we could have had a premiership midfield by now.

While I agree our coaching and development leaves a lot to be desired Jobe is a shit example.

He was a lazy tubby little f*** who had an old man who was tough as nails and belted him until he came good. Greg Williams was actually a club initiated push.

Can you imagine punishing some of the little snowflakes now with boxing? Not just at our club, but at them all across the league. The trick is finding those blokes who already have the talent and don't need the old school tactics to get it out of them.

We fail miserably at that.

Jobe is a good example of club failings v self initiated improvement...

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.the ... 1db34.html

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cou ... 3acd5e8d12

He met Williams due to his management, he did this after the club told him to.

He started the training in St Kilda because his Dad got in the ring with him early August 2005 and belted him around the ears to show how unfit he was. Up until that point Jobe resisted all the extra training sessions the club ordered him to, he'd been routinely told his fitness was shithouse and he needed to put in more.

Jobe didn't do either of those off his own bat.

Either way (and I’ve actually heard Daddy Watson talk about this on air), this success was achieved outside of the club’s program.

[s'dreams]

Anyhow... could someone in the industry advise me on whether this is true?

Somewhere in the last couple of weeks I came across commentary that basically said that AFL players are restricted to 38 hours a week training off season and even less during season (I suppose club mandated training). This is to make it like a "standard job/workhours" (as if that exists unless you punch a clock-card).

I suppose players could train "in their own time" but there is supposed pressure from sports-scientists to stick to specific regimes.

Is this true?

[BenDoolan]

Anyhow... could someone in the industry advise me on whether this is true?

Somewhere in the last couple of weeks I came across commentary that basically said that AFL players are restricted to 38 hours a week training off season and even less during season (I suppose club mandated training). This is to make it like a "standard job/workhours" (as if that exists unless you punch a clock-card).

I suppose players could train "in their own time" but there is supposed pressure from sports-scientists to stick to specific regimes.

Is this true?

It would make sense. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I suspect it would be coming from the AFLPA.

[nudder12]

Anyhow... could someone in the industry advise me on whether this is true?

Somewhere in the last couple of weeks I came across commentary that basically said that AFL players are restricted to 38 hours a week training off season and even less during season (I suppose club mandated training). This is to make it like a "standard job/workhours" (as if that exists unless you punch a clock-card).

I suppose players could train "in their own time" but there is supposed pressure from sports-scientists to stick to specific regimes.

Is this true?

It would make sense. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I suspect it would be coming from the AFLPA.

Can't recall where I heard it, but yeah, it's a thing (for sure). Although I seem to recall it was less than 38 hours - maybe as low as 30.

EDIT: I went and looked. As best I can see (without spending days reading the whole thing) the players spend 3 and a half days per week at the Club between Mon- Fri. Couldn't find how long a "day" was, although the half-day is 4 hours. Didn't see where it specified about weekends.
From AFLPA 2017-2022 Collective Bargaining Agreement (especially Points 11 & 12 in Schedule C) - http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content ... 22-CBA.pdf.

PS - I'm paraphrasing, but in off-season (between end-of-season and resumption of official training) players are on leave, but they do have to maintain a reasonable amount of fitness, and Clubs can instruct them to follow a reasonable training guideline but generally are not allowed to monitor their fitness, or require them to report about their fitness, at all.

[nudder12]

Lots of social media posts this weekend calling for Dodoro's head.
I disagree.
And here's a comment (from FB) that explains why I disagree.

"Stringer, Parish, Francis, Cox, Heppell, Wright, Perkins, Reid, Laverde, Langford, McGrath, Caldwell, Hobbs are all first round picks. Add in quality talent from beyond the first round in Merrett, Tippa, Jones, Ridley, Hind.
That's 18 players who are either first rounders or should have been in hindsight. The talent is there, the system is the issue and more accurately the team defensive more than anything".

And my view about that - "Correct. Someone that gets it. We have the talent. It's the system that's the problem, or, if it isn't the system then it's how the system is being explained. Coaching issue!! "

[s'dreams]

Lots of social media posts this weekend calling for Dodoro's head.
I disagree.
And here's a comment (from FB) that explains why I disagree.

"Stringer, Parish, Francis, Cox, Heppell, Wright, Perkins, Reid, Laverde, Langford, McGrath, Caldwell, Hobbs are all first round picks. Add in quality talent from beyond the first round in Merrett, Tippa, Jones, Ridley, Hind.
That's 18 players who are either first rounders or should have been in hindsight. The talent is there, the system is the issue and more accurately the team defensive more than anything".

And my view about that - "Correct. Someone that gets it. We have the talent. It's the system that's the problem, or, if it isn't the system then it's how the system is being explained. Coaching issue!! "

Dodo gets them through the door. He aint responsible for what goes on after that ... especially what goes on between their ears which seems to be the biggest problem at the moment.

[BenDoolan]

Lots of social media posts this weekend calling for Dodoro's head.
I disagree.
And here's a comment (from FB) that explains why I disagree.

"Stringer, Parish, Francis, Cox, Heppell, Wright, Perkins, Reid, Laverde, Langford, McGrath, Caldwell, Hobbs are all first round picks. Add in quality talent from beyond the first round in Merrett, Tippa, Jones, Ridley, Hind.
That's 18 players who are either first rounders or should have been in hindsight. The talent is there, the system is the issue and more accurately the team defensive more than anything".

And my view about that - "Correct. Someone that gets it. We have the talent. It's the system that's the problem, or, if it isn't the system then it's how the system is being explained. Coaching issue!! "

Dodo gets them through the door. He aint responsible for what goes on after that ... especially what goes on between their ears which seems to be the biggest problem at the moment.

Agree.

Our shitness programs are second to none.

[Rover99]

Lots of social media posts this weekend calling for Dodoro's head.
I disagree.
And here's a comment (from FB) that explains why I disagree.

"Stringer, Parish, Francis, Cox, Heppell, Wright, Perkins, Reid, Laverde, Langford, McGrath, Caldwell, Hobbs are all first round picks. Add in quality talent from beyond the first round in Merrett, Tippa, Jones, Ridley, Hind.
That's 18 players who are either first rounders or should have been in hindsight. The talent is there, the system is the issue and more accurately the team defensive more than anything".

And my view about that - "Correct. Someone that gets it. We have the talent. It's the system that's the problem, or, if it isn't the system then it's how the system is being explained. Coaching issue!! "

Dodo gets them through the door. He aint responsible for what goes on after that ... especially what goes on between their ears which seems to be the biggest problem at the moment.

Agree.

Our shitness programs are second to none.

Well we do have issues with size - a bigger bodied team kicks our ass regularly...but then a smaller faster team kicks it too! Then there's our speed... several times we've had the fastest trial times but the slowest games. Injuries and fitness should be looked at first. Then we need a mongrel mid who looks like a Collingwood flanker.

[dodgey]

Oh ye of little faith.

How can you not count his raging successes.

Recycled stars such as:
Cupido
Zantuck
Allen
Campo
Green

Or his wonderful draft stories:
Gumby
Myers
Harvey
Reimers
Hunter

His record speaks for itself

Myers before Rioli.... Will never forget that one.